An Interview with Lee McIntyre, Author of Post-Truth

According to Lee McIntyre, Research Fellow at the Center for Philosophy and History, Boston University, we are now living in a post-truth ... Skiptocontent Subscribe$50/year BannedBooksWeek Report&Support PrivacyResources Top10ChallengedBooksof2020 By:RebeccaHill Gettingtothetruthtodaytakesmoreeffort.Findingitwithabarrageofinformationonsocialmediaand24-hournewscycles,isexhausting.ArecentpollbytheAssociatedPress-NORCCenterforPublicAffairsResearchfoundthat47%ofthosesurveyedfounditdifficulttoknowwhethertheinformationtheyreceivedcouldbetrusted.Thequestionformany:whatisthetruth,andhowcantheytellifit’sfalseornot.  AccordingtoLeeMcIntyre,ResearchFellowattheCenterforPhilosophyandHistory,BostonUniversity,wearenowlivinginapost-truthsociety.McIntyrebelievesthatpost-truthisanattempttocompelsomeonetobelieveinsomethingwhetherevidenceexistsforitornot.Onememorableexample: DonaldTrumpclaiminghisinaugurationcrowdwaslargerthanObama’scrowdeventhoughphotographicevidenceindicatedotherwise.   Recently,McIntyrepublishedabookaboutpost-truthforMITPress’sEssentialKnowledgeseries.It’sashortlittlebookpackedwithlotsofvaluableinformationforthoseofuslookingfortruthinthispost-truthsociety. ItalkedtoMcIntyreandhereiswhathesharedwithme.  RH: Howispost-truthanydifferentfromlying?  LM: Lyingiswhenyouaretryingtogetsomeonetobelievesomethinguntrue.Ithinkthatitshows,atleast,amodicumofrespecttothepersonwhoyouarespeakingwithbecauseyourecognizetheirrightforthemtowithholdtheircognitiveconsent,i.e.,tosayyouarelying,orIdon’tbelieveyou. Butpost-truthismuchmoreinsidious.It’swhenwhat’ssaidisbeyondlying.Forinstance,apersonsaysIamgoingtotellyouwhatistrue,whetheryoubelieveitornot.Itisatacticthatisusedbyauthoritariansandwannabeauthoritariansandisaboutdominanceandpower.ItmeansthatIcantellyouwhat’strueanditbecomesyourreality.  RH:So,arewelivinginapost-truthsociety?  LM:Idobelieveweareinapost-truthsocietythoughtherehasbeensomerealconfusiononthispoint.Forinstance,ifyouhavereadStevenPinker’slatestarticleinSkepticthatwecan’tbeinaPTera.Why?Youjustmadeastatementthatyouthinkistrue,therefore,refutingthatitistrue.Bymakingtheclaimthatsomanypeoplecareaboutthethreattotruth,itisthereforeinherentthatitcouldnotbeathreattothetruth.ButIdisagree. Clearly,athreattothetruthexists.WhenIstatethatwearelivinginapost-truthsociety,Iamnotsayingthatnobodycaresaboutthetruth.I’msayingthattherearepeoplewhoengageinthistactic,politicalsubordinationofreality,andpaynopricewhatsoeverandarenotaccountablefordoingthis.Truthisunderthreat,andpeoplewhouseitasatacticforauthoritarianexistandpaynopriceforusingit.   RH: Whenyousaythattheyarenotpayingthepriceforit,whatdoyoumean?  LM:Forinstance,whenDonaldTrumpWhenTrumpsatinfrontoftheNationalWeatherServicemapandmarkeditwithaSharpie,thatwas“post-truth101.”Becausewhathewasreallysayingwasis“thisiswhatistrue-Idon’tcareabouttheevidenceandwhatanyoneelsesays-ItookoutmySharpieandmadeitcometrue.” Thesameistruewithhisinaugurationclaims.Heusedalietocreatearealitythathewanted.That’spost-truth.  RH: Howdidwegettothispoint?  LM:TherearefiverootsofPT.Oneissciencedenial,whichforsixtyyears,thecigarettecompaniesbandedtogethertodenythetruthaboutcigarettesandcancer. Thatdenialprovidedtheblueprintforthesixtyyearsofsciencedenialaboutevolution,climatechange,etc.  Otherfactorslikecognitivebiasareexacerbatedbythedeclineoftraditionalmediaandtheriseofsocialmedia. Ourbrainpathwaystellustolookorconfirmation,welookforconfirmationontheinternet,notABCNews,andfindsomeonewhoagreeswithus-that’salltheconfirmationweneed.  Finally,Ibelievetoothat,althoughthisiscontroversialwithsomepeople,theclaimthatobjectivetruthdoesn’texist,andanytruthclaimisagrabforpower.Forinstance,tosaythatthereisnowatercrisisinFlintwhen,infact,thereisawatercrisis.It’stheideathateverythingisallnarrativeandthatthereisnotruth. RH:Arepeopleconfusedabouttruth,orfacts?    LM: No,Ithinkthatpeopleknowexactlywhatitmeans.Ibelievethatitiswiredintous. Cognitivebiasisalsowiredintous,sosometimeswewanttopretendsomethingisfalsewhendeepdownweknowitistrue.Ithinkthatcommonpersonhasaverygoodunderstandingofwhatisthefacts,truth,andreality. Philosophershavedebatedtheappropriatetheoryoftruth,butIdon’tthinkthatthereareverymanypeoplewhowillclaimthattruthdoesn’tmatter.Peoplehavearadicalmisunderstandingofhowweconditionbeliefsbasedonevidenceorbuildjustificationsbasedondataorprobability.Theydon’tunderstandtheircognitivebiasesandendupbelievingwhattheywanttobelievebecausetheyarejustsopooratreasoning.Itisnotthattheyhavethewrongconceptoftruth,it’sjustthattheyarenotrigorousinhowtheyformtheirbeliefs. RH:Whenyousaymostpeopleunderstandtheconceptofthetruth,whataboutpeoplewhoareinclinedtopickandchoosethefactsthatrepresenttheirbeliefsorignorethefacts?  LM:Theproblemisifmostpeoplestartwithideologyandknowwhattheywanttobelieveistrue,thentheygatherfactstobolsterit. Herethedifficultyexists.Peopleshouldgatherfacts,thenformaconclusion.So,itisveryeasyinsomecasesforpeoplewhocometodifferentconclusionsbecausetheystartedfromdifferentideologicalbeliefsandgatheredadifferentsetoffacts. IcanshowyoufivestudiesthatshowimmigrationisanetdragontheeconomyandIcanshowyoufivestudiesthatshowimmigrationisaplusfortheeconomy.Theyarenotlying.Theyjuststartedfromdifferentideologicalpositionsandgathereddatatobolsterwhattheywantedtobelieveistrue.  RH:Hasourrelianceonsocialmediaimpactourabilitytodiscernthetruth? LM:Ithas.Ifsomeonewantstobelievesomethinguntrue,thelessvetting,thebetter.Traditionaljournalismhashadtouptheirgame. Socialmediahascausedtraditionalmediatoreflectonwhatvaluestheyhaveareimportant.Idothinkthattraditionalmediahasgottenbetteroverthelastfewyears.  Traditionally,journalistswereconcernedaboutbeingaccusedofpoliticalbias.Theywantedtotellbothsides.Butifyougiveliaraforum,thenyouaredoingadisservicetoyouraudience. Withsciencecoverageonclimatechange,themediawouldpresentopposingviewpointsoneachsideandneversaywhatthetruthwasorevenwhatthescientificconsensuswas,thuscreatinginformationbiasintheaudience’smind.So,theaudiencewaslessinformedthanwhentheystarted.  RH:What’sthesolution,then? LM:Cognitivepsychologist,GeorgeLakoffproposesatruthsandwich,meaningwhenjournalistsreportalie,whattheycan’tdoisjustcoverthelie.Givingtheliaraforumforthelieonlyamplifiesthelie.Lakoffsayswhattheyneedtodoistosandwichtheliebetweentwotruthstatements:speakthetruth,reporttheliethenfact-checkthelietoshowwhyitisalie.Iwishjournalistswouldcatchontothistechnique,buttheyaremoreafraidofbeingaccusedofpoliticalbiasthaninformationbias.  RH:Dolibrariansasinformationbrokershaveanyvalueinapost-truthsociety?  LM:Ithinklibrariansareheroes.Librariansmustgatherandprotectinformation.Preservingrecords,makingthemavailableandhelpingpeoplefind,interpret,andunderstandthemislikemedicalcare,librariansandjournalistsdoforwhatwearegoingthroughrightnow.  RH:Whatdolibrariansneedtodoasagroupinapost-truthsociety? LM:Ithinkthelibrarianscouldhelptomakepeopleawareofthedebatearoundpost-truth. IloveitwhenIgointoabookstoreandseeadisplayofbooksthatinclude1984,ItCan’tHappenHere,TheHandmaid’sTale. Peoplebecomeawarethatthisisnotthefirsttimewearefacingthis,andhereissomereadingthatshouldbedone.  Ialsothinkthatlibrariansshouldtrytoteachcriticalthinkingandplayaroleinthatdebate.Criticalthinkingiserodedtodaybecauseofpeople’srelianceonelectronicmaterials.Ithinkthatonethingthatlibrarianscanhelpwiththat,eventhoughthatmodernlibraryisdigitized,remindingpeoplewhypaperrecordsexistandhowdeepthebackgroundcangoonthesequestions.  RebeccaHillisafreelancewriterwhowritesonlibraries,literacy,scienceeducationandothertopicsforavarietyofonlineandnationalmagazines.CurrentlyshewritesascienceeducationcolumnforVOYAmagazine. SheholdsaMLSfromIndianaUniversityPurdueUniversityandJDfromValparaisoUniversity.Herinterestinintellectualfreedomhasbeenpeakedbytheincreaseintechnologyviaartificialintelligenceandsocialmedia.CurrentlysheservesontheIndianaLibraryFederationBoardofDirectorsandthePurdueUniversityLibrariesDean’sCouncil.SheisalsoontheLibraryBoardofTrusteesforherlocallibrary.Alongtimeadvocateoflibraries,reading,writingandallthingswordsareherpassion. 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